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Olympus Ls-10 Olympus Challenges SONY

#41 User is offline   LewnWorx 

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 11:36 AM

QUOTE (Gregory D. Moore @ Jun 25 2008, 07:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
First of all, thanks for the helpful info you've shared.

Since you mention an interest in condensors, and if you're sticking with the LS-10, you might want to check out the Sony ECM957Pro or the Sony ECM957. It looks like these would plug right into the LS-10 without need for phantom power or adapters. I haven't tried either of these but I'd love to hear from someone who has as it looks like a perfect match for the LS-10. And if you shop around, you can find these both for substantially less than the list.

If you or anyone else tests this combo, please share your experience with us.


That's a nice option, however I already own a really nice pair of modded Octava's, and I have full set of Omni/Cardiod/Hypercardiod heads for them, so I'd really rather not have to buy additional mics.

Now back to one of the other posts someone else made on the LS-10 is the bass rolloff issue. Granted you can record at 24 bit, and if the preamp is clean enough you can tweeze it out in EQ, but even with a high end linear phase EQ (like the Sony Oxford plugins) you still introduce stuff when you have to boost more than 3-4 DB with an EQ.

The live gig I did Sunday had very little content under 50Hz. I'm curious as to whether the onboard mic/preamp combination on the Edirol HR09 suffers from the same phenomina, or for that matter whether ALL the portables on boards have massive bass rolloff?

As this appears to be a bit of an evolving field I'm not seeing the same level of published specs I'd expect to see (I sure am missing the handy frequency response strip charts you get with "real" mics).

IF this is the case across the spectrum, I'll just have to live with it, but if the Edirol has better low end performance and I don't have to do what I consider to be radical EQ to bring the sub 60Hz stuff up to snuff, I'll take the increased size and weight any day.

Then again, my "real" application for a field recorder (when not doing interviews) is live music capture and recording since wave sweeps of acoustical spaces for Convolution Reverb purposes. If I can go into a space with nothing more than an EON G2 and feeder source for the sweep and a little very mobile field recorder, I can capture a lot more spaces since it's not as much gear to lug around and set up.

So...

How are these other units in terms of low end response?

TIA..

Mark
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#42 User is offline   anechoic 

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 01:02 PM

QUOTE (Gregory D. Moore @ Apr 29 2008, 02:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The LS-10

The Sanken CMS-7 @127 degree setting

As you can hear, the LS-10 does capture the lows as well as the Sanken.

I disagree: On my system the Sanken CMS-7 reproduces more lows which can definitely be heard on the timpani part in the beginning
I'm playing both files back from my Powerbook-> PreSonus Firebox->Mackie 1402->Genelec 1030A's


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#43 User is offline   synergy543 

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 09:06 PM

Well I must say, it wasn't a terribly scientific test. Inaccuracies in my speaker system would also get multiplied. In retrospect, it would have been better to use pink noise filtered at various frequency bands and calibrate the speaker level with a noise meter. This would yield a better comparison of the mics.

However, what the test did reveal to me was that I easily have the ability to compensate for low frequencies with EQ but the loss in stereo spread was, in my opinion, a bigger issue - although one I can still overcome. It gives me an idea of what my limitations are so that I can compensate for them in post.
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#44 User is offline   anechoic 

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 11:54 AM

QUOTE (Gregory D. Moore @ Jul 2 2008, 05:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
However, what the test did reveal to me was that I easily have the ability to compensate for low frequencies with EQ but the loss in stereo spread was, in my opinion, a bigger issue - although one I can still overcome.



true
it also revealed the quality of the built in mics are not too bad when compared to the Sankens
FYI: check the naturerecordists list on yahoogroups for info regarding Klas from Telinga Microphones possibly making some EM-21 based mic's for the LS-10
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#45 User is offline   Windjammer 

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 03:43 PM

I understand the remote (RS-30W) for the LS-10 was due in "spring of 2008" but it was not listed for sale on the Olympus web site.

Yesterday, I saw it listed on the Olympus "emporium" site at US$59.99
https://emporium.olympus.com/innards/empPro...?sku=147026-410

I was about to order but when I got to the page where I was supposed to enter my card number, I noticed that it didn't appear to be a secure site, so I bailed out. Has anyone ordered from this site? Does anyone know of a vendor with a secure web site where I can purchase this? I don't want to order an LS-10 until I know I can get the remote.

Thanks,
jim

BTW: This is an awesome forum!
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#46 User is offline   synergy543 

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 04:07 PM

Hi Jim,

I don't quite understand the problem. When I go to the link you posted, I get a https site with the little lock up in the right hand corner of my browser (Safari on a Mac). Doesn't this mean the site is secure? I followed it up right to the credit card entry and it never changed (didn't order myself though).

If you don't see the same, possibly try another browser?
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#47 User is offline   Windjammer 

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 04:42 PM

QUOTE (Gregory D. Moore @ Jul 5 2008, 04:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you don't see the same, possibly try another browser?

Well, there you go. Last night, using Firefox, I got a red slash through the lock. I just tried placing the order using Safari and it showed a lock with no slash. Then, just out of curiosity I tried again with Firefox and this time got the lock with no slash. Maybe they were just having problems with their site last night. Seems to work now though. Thanks for the suggestion Gregory!

Jim
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#48 User is offline   Windjammer 

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 06:56 PM

QUOTE (fender3x @ Jun 1 2008, 02:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Has anyone used an SDHC card that's over 2 gigs in this thing yet? Reading through the website, it's not really clear to me whether this feature has been fully implemented or not...
I put an A-DATA 16GB Turbo SDHC Class 6 memory card in mine and it seems to work fine. Of course, I haven't filled it to capacity yet, but I have been recording and playing back from the SD card with no problems. You need to have the version 1.04 system update installed in order for the LS-10 to recognize 16GB cards. I got my memory card through Amazon for US$49.95

--Jim

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#49 User is offline   aqlmnd2 

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 09:16 AM

I am interested in acquiring this machine. I have read most of the specs available on the net and can't determine if this machine has "voice activated" recording. This is the feature that stops the recording when there is no signifcant level of sound. Thanks in advance to anybody responding.
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#50 User is offline   mkblack 

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 09:40 PM

What are some options for good field mics for the LS-10. I saw the earlier post with the 2 Sony mics, but I'd want something not as expensive. Maybe $150 tops.

I'd be doing nature recording and SFX as well some live performances.

Thanks!
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#51 User is offline   Productions Zvon 

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 06:35 PM

First I would like to say that I just discovered this forum by googling "LS10" and "forum". I have read the LS10 review and all the posts in this thread and enjoyed them.

I bought the LS10 this August and it's my first field recorder so I cannot compare it to any other model but I would like to say a few things based on the previous posts.

1- I did buy the remote and some other stuff from the Olympus website.

2- For those who asked about the SDHC brands, I successfully use two 8 GB cards, a Kingston class 4 and the new hi-speed Panasonic. I also read on the Olympus site that the 1.04 firmware update allows the use of 16 GB cards though I still have to try one.

3- I really did not buy it for this, but its sound quality as a MP3 player is great.

4- I too noticed the lack of low end when recording with the built-in mics but I kind of of expected it and even if it was a bit disappointing, I cannot say that I was surprised. It was most noticeable with the thunderstorms recordings that I made (again not really surprising). But it was quite good with a live recording of small jazz combo (quartet + singer) in a acoustically less than ideal room. By quite good I mean that I was wishing for better but that I heard more than a few commercial live recordings that were worse.

I am guessing than using a larger microphone with a better frequency response will probably help. I also recorded a musical TV show with line out of a HDTV receiver connected to the LS10 line-in and the quality was good across the whole spectrum.

Another interesting test that I made is to record some handbells of various sizes and the results were excellent. It's near impossible to distinguish the recording from the live bells.

This post has been edited by Productions Zvon: 18 October 2008 - 08:15 PM

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#52 User is offline   synergy543 

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 11:41 AM

Welcome to the forum Zvon and thank you for posting comments on your experience with the LS-10. I'd love to hear those handbells you speak of. If by any chance you post these on your website, please let us know.

Greg
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#53 User is offline   Productions Zvon 

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 07:32 PM

Hi Greg and thanks for the welcome

The bells recording I made so far were only quick tests and I will at some point make more extensive recordings with different setups and make a set of them but here are 3 examples:

http://www.lesproductionszvon.com/Bells001...bigger_bell.wav

http://www.lesproductionszvon.com/Bells001...maller_bell.wav

http://www.lesproductionszvon.com/Bells001...l_cheap_mic.wav

The first 2 were recorded with the built-in mics and thus are stereo and the left and right channels are not exactly alike. The third one was recorded with a 20 years old cheap microphone designed for a consumer cassette tape recorder and is mono. All are 16 bits, 44,100.
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#54 User is offline   synergy543 

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 11:04 PM

Very nice Zvon! I like the built-in mic the best.

It would be interesting to know if recording close-up would give you a proximity effect bass boost? (Although it sounds very nice as is)

Also, your recording is very clean. Do you have a very quiet studio or did you use noise reduction? In an ordinary household environment, I don't think the ambient noise would be that low.

I have the Donnie Christian Orchestral Library (I think only about 10 of us in the world have it) and it has some lovely handbells. I think Donnie later sold the library to Big Fish which released it under the name "Elite Orchestral Percussion". If you go to the following audio examples link, Elite Orchestral Percussion, you can hear his demo (#5) called "Cathederal Bells" which is a lovely assortment of orchestal bell percussion. I highly recommend checking this out.

Thanks for sharing,

Greg
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#55 User is offline   Productions Zvon 

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 06:11 PM

QUOTE (Gregory D. Moore @ Oct 21 2008, 07:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Very nice Zvon! I like the built-in mic the best.

Thanks

QUOTE (Gregory D. Moore @ Oct 21 2008, 07:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also, your recording is very clean. Do you have a very quiet studio or did you use noise reduction? In an ordinary household environment, I don't think the ambient noise would be that low.

Greg

I recorded in my home studio so it is an ordinary household environment but at this occasion it was quieter than usual because it was during a power outage and when it happened I thought that it was a perfect time to do some recordings with the LS-10 laugh.gif .

Also I live in the country on a usually very quiet street.

But indeed the sensitivity and rather wide pattern of the built-in mics can be both a blessing and a curse and I had some problems with ambient noise in other recordings. Whether indoors or outdoors, even though I knew it, I never really realized how much noise there is in the world before recording with the LS-10. angry.gif .

Of course I am not blaming the LS-10, but just saying that often a unidirectionnal is better suited to some recording tasks. For instance, I did some pretty clean recordings with a unidirectionnal mic even with a not so silent computer in the room by carefully positionning the mic and making sure that the source is loud enough. But with the LS-10, I have to shutdown the 2 computers, unplug the refrigerator and turn off the air exchanger. And even then, it may pick up some noises from outdoor that are usually masked by the indoor noise. laugh.gif

This post has been edited by Productions Zvon: 21 October 2008 - 06:48 PM

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#56 User is offline   synergy543 

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 02:36 PM

Zvon, I've made some great recordings using the exact same circumstances and techniques! (out in the country, power outages, unplugging fridge!)

As for dealing with remnant extraneous ambient noise, I was very impressed with the results I was achieving with Izotope RX. I posted a on this you can find here. I think this noise reduction software is a perfect (and almost essential) companion to portable recorders due to the enviromnents in which they will be used. But with Izotope RX, you truly do get surgical capabilities with the details of a scalpel.
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#57 User is offline   Productions Zvon 

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 09:46 PM

I've read many good things about iZotope RX, I just downloaded the demo and will give it a try. I never had much need for restoration software until now and I have Sound Forge that is supposed to be good at it.

A few years ago I did have some good results for simple restoration tasks with Goldwave.
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#58 User is offline   DavidBattino 

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 09:57 AM

QUOTE (Gregory D. Moore @ Oct 22 2008, 03:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As for dealing with remnant extraneous ambient noise, I was very impressed with the results I was achieving with Izotope RX.


I'll add another thumbs-up for Izotope RX. I've tried a bunch of noise-reduction software over the years, but RX's blend of ease of use and quality results is outstanding. Someday, when I'm not in a production rush, I'd like to try its super-quality "slow" mode.

For quick, smack-it-with-a-hammer fixes, I also like BIAS SoundSoap, but the results from RX seem more transparent.

My favorite noise reduction trick is layering the compromised audio track over something else. wink.gif There's a classic Beach Boys song where the engineer had the Dolby noise reduction set up backwards, causing it to amplify the tape noise on the master recording. The producer hacked around that by adding ocean sounds.
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#59 User is offline   stevesmooth 

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Posted 01 November 2008 - 07:08 PM

QUOTE (Ian Rawes @ Apr 10 2008, 09:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have been using my Olympus LS-10 for a couple of days now. It is a well-made, well-thought-out little machine, except for one thing.

The LS-10's Line-in jack has relatively high impedance compared to other compact recorders, and I was certainly disappointed when using the Olympus in conjunction with Sonic Studios DSM mics and PA-3SX pre-amp. The levels remained very low, even when recording loud sounds with every setting on pre-amp and recorder set to maximum.

If you want to make a lot of recordings using external mics and external preamps, then the Olympus LS-10 is probably not a good first choice.


I tested the olympus Ls-10 and found it lacking with size and feel. I found the Marantz PMD620. it was made of metal and fit nicely into my hand. It takes just 3 seconds to boot up. I bought it from http://martelelectronics.com They gave me a free conference grabber microphone. They also had the Marantz PMD671 brand new for $695.00 Steve
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#60 User is offline   stevesmooth 

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Posted 01 November 2008 - 07:15 PM

QUOTE (LewnWorx @ Jun 26 2008, 07:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's a nice option, however I already own a really nice pair of modded Octava's, and I have full set of Omni/Cardiod/Hypercardiod heads for them, so I'd really rather not have to buy additional mics.

Now back to one of the other posts someone else made on the LS-10 is the bass rolloff issue. Granted you can record at 24 bit, and if the preamp is clean enough you can tweeze it out in EQ, but even with a high end linear phase EQ (like the Sony Oxford plugins) you still introduce stuff when you have to boost more than 3-4 DB with an EQ.

The live gig I did Sunday had very little content under 50Hz. I'm curious as to whether the onboard mic/preamp combination on the Edirol HR09 suffers from the same phenomina, or for that matter whether ALL the portables on boards have massive bass rolloff?

As this appears to be a bit of an evolving field I'm not seeing the same level of published specs I'd expect to see (I sure am missing the handy frequency response strip charts you get with "real" mics).

IF this is the case across the spectrum, I'll just have to live with it, but if the Edirol has better low end performance and I don't have to do what I consider to be radical EQ to bring the sub 60Hz stuff up to snuff, I'll take the increased size and weight any day.

Then again, my "real" application for a field recorder (when not doing interviews) is live music capture and recording since wave sweeps of acoustical spaces for Convolution Reverb purposes. If I can go into a space with nothing more than an EON G2 and feeder source for the sweep and a little very mobile field recorder, I can capture a lot more spaces since it's not as much gear to lug around and set up.

So...

How are these other units in terms of low end response?

TIA..

Mark

I returned the ls-10 too consumer ish to pro-sumer. Way too small took to long to boot up. I replaced it with a Marantz PMD620 metal hand filling pro. Boot time 3 seconds now that pro. I also got a free mic from Martel Electronics. http://martelelectronics.com/1455.html

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