Greetings! I'm new to the O'Reilly Forums and am very glad to have found a place to ask my questions, many of which will likely be extremely rudimentary for all of you with loads of recording experience. As you read on, bear in mind that I know next to nothing about the ins and outs of audio recording, let alone digital audio recording. As a result, I ask you to please be gentle on me!

Here's my situation:

I am an aspiring opera singer who is looking for a portable digital recorder to record my voice lessons and perhaps some practice sessions. My current set up is that I record my lessons on standard audio cassette tapes using my teacher's equipment (microphone connected to receiver connected to dual tape deck). Then, as if it were the year 1985 or earlier, I pop my cassette tape into my walkman and listen to my lessons during my commute to and from my day job. Generally, so as to avoid being buried under a mountain of cassette tapes at home, I re-record new lessons over previous lessons using the same tape, which results in marked deterioration in the recording quality.

Now that high-quality, portable digital recorders--including on-board mics--can be had for a reasonable price, I think it's time to upgrade my equipment to that of the current millennium. (For what it's worth, I never invested in a mini-disc player/recorder for a variety of reasons.) Plus, I would like to be able to transfer recent lesson files to my iPod for on-the-go review and re-review, and it would be terrific to keep a digital library of my voice lessons on my MAC computer so as to see my progress over time very easily.

As for my voice lessons, my teacher's studio is a fairly small room (perhaps 8'x12') with a baby grand piano in it. Also, during the summertime, when the weather gets hot, there is usually an air conditioner running in the room, which I imagine would get picked up by sensitive microphones. Plus, during my lessons, my teacher will often stop me between exercises or between phrases of a song or aria to correct me and/or impart wisdom and he's rather soft spoken. (When I listen to my current cassette tape recordings of my lessons, I have to crank up the volume on my walkman to hear what my teacher is saying, and then my ears get blasted if I fail to turn the volume down before my singing starts up again.)

At this point, I think I have narrowed down my choices to the three mentioned in the topic title, based on my reading numerous online user reviews of each product and also some very basic criteria. My criteria include, in no particular order of importance: easy to operate, even for a newbie like me; runs on easily replaceable batteries (i.e. does not have a rechargeable internal battery that requires returning to the manufacturer and costs extra to replace); is well-constructed/durable (e.g. I don't want to have to buy a new recorder in 6 months because this one broke); has on-board mics that will be able to handle both loud and soft singing, as well as quiet speech; captures such sounds with at least very good to excellent audio quality; is small enough to carry; is Mac compatible.

Edirol R-09HR
My understanding is that the new R-09HR includes several improvements on the original R-09, but these mainly have to do with the design/construction of the unit, e.g. location of memory card. I don't recall where, but while Googling for reviews of the R-09HR, I came across a side-by-side comparison of the original R-09 vs. the HR, and their respective specifications were nearly identical. One thing I do particularly like about the HR is that it comes with a wireless remote control so that once the unit is set up, I don't have to physically touch the recorder itself to start and stop recording. Also, from what I've read, it seems the Edirol is pretty easy to use.

Sony PCM-D50
I particularly like what I've read about the PCM-D50's limiter in Mark Nelson's review of Jan. 2008. My fear is that, due to my needs to be able to record both loud operatic singing and relatively quiet speech without resetting recording levels, at least one end of the volume spectrum will be lacking. In other words, if the levels are appropriate to do a good job of capturing the singing, then they won't be right to capture my teacher's talking. And if they are set to capture the speech well, then the singing will be too loud and put them over the edge. My thinking is that the Sony's limiter may be just the thing I need. I also like that the mics swivel so that I could presumably angle one toward my teacher at the keyboard end of the aforementioned baby grand piano and the other toward me at the far opposite end. One thing I don't particularly like about the Sony is that I would be limited to only using Sony memory sticks, though I guess that's not the end of the world if this unit really is the best one for my needs.

Olympus LS-10
The Olympus LS-10 caught my attention because of it's especially small size and because it's slightly less expensive than the other two. Plus, I've read mostly positive reviews of the device that talked about how easy it was to use.


In an ideal world, I would love to be able to try each of these recorders in the actual conditions and see which one gives me the best result, but I can't afford to buy all three! And so I turn to you, O wise sages of the O'Reilly Forums, for your advice and counsel. I thank you in advance for taking the time to read my post, as well as for any thoughts you might be able to offer based on your personal experiences with these or other devices and/or similar recording situations.

Sincerely,
Noah

Hi Noah,

Since you're in NYC, I suggest you go over to B&H and have a close look at all three. I can't think of why any of these wouldn't work well for you so its really is a matter of personal preference, form factor and features. I own the LS-10 and am very pleased with it and like its small pocket-size and ease of operation. I also think the Sony PCM D50 looks ruggedly built - its a bit larger and it was the other unit I looked at closely. I'm less familiar with the Edirol R-09 so I'm not biased against it, just unfamiliar. The LS-10 records mp3s whereas the PCM D50 has that very interesting sounding limiter that Mark Nelson points out in his Sony PCM D50 review. I think if size and money were no object, my first choice would be the Sony PCM D50 as the transparent limiter sounds very sweet. Although, if you record in 24-bit mode and watch your levels, you can achieve excellent results with the LS-10 as well.

Sometimes when I can't make a choice, I make arrangements with a store to purchase both to try with the understanding that I'll return one (in perfect condition of course). Being able to test gear out in my studio makes it easy for me to then make a choice.

Hopefully others will share their personal opinions as well.

Oh, Yeah!
I hound host's preference is similar with me, although she interests on her opera exercise, and I just for my language study. Plus, my curiosity is whether the SONY PCM-D50 or Olympus LS-10 has the function – supporting A-B repeating for my personal voice-recording file or other format audio file (such as WMA/MP3/WAV/APE) – just repeating any period of an interval of an unabridged audio file. I wonder whether the function, which has implemented on the traditional audio player such as CD/Mini Disc/Tape Walkman, MP3 player etc will be seen on the two equipments. Thanks for any who give any purchasing counsel or has the personal experience to share with me.

Sincerely
Gatsby

This post has been edited by Gatesby: Jul 26 2008, 07:24 PM

Noah: I'm editing Mark Nelson's review of the R-09 HR now and should have it online on July 31. [Update: Here it is.] The remote control does seem like a slick and useful feature. Note that the LS-10 and D-50 also have optional remote controls, although the Sony's is wired.

Another thing we liked about the HR is its beginner-friendly documentation, which provides lots of clear examples for different recording scenarios.

I doubt the volume difference between singing and talking would be enough to require the Sony's fancy limiter; you may find that the lack of tape hiss you get by switching to digital recording makes your teacher's voice more distinct. I would recommend placing the recorder close to him, though.

Many thanks to Gregory for the suggestion of checking B&H. I have a feeling they wouldn't be too keen on my buying 2 or 3 recorders and then returning the one(s) I don't want, but I'll definitely pay the store a visit and see if I can at least hold the units in my hands.

Thanks, too, to David for the heads-up on Mark Nelson's impending review of the R-09HR. I look forward to reading it! Also, yes, I was thinking I would place the recorder closest to my teacher in order to best capture his speaking. The downside of this, however, is that the recorder would also then be closer to the room's air conditioner. No matter which recorder I choose, I expect that finding the ideal location of the recorder in the room may take some trial and error.

All best,
Noah

Greeting.
I'm glad to have stumbled on this forum, as I'm torn between buying one of these 3.

I'm leaning towards the Olympus though I appreciate any recent insights.

I recently sold my zoom H4 mostly the darn display is just way too small for me to use with comfort, as well as the build quality is not so good. That said, I'm mostly torn between the LS 10 and Pcm d50. I mostly care about ease of use and sound quality.
I did hear however that the Sony may have a bit of an exaggerated top end in comparison.

Thanks for any guidance!

So, I finally made a decision and I ordered the Olympus LS-10 over the weekend. In the previous weeks, I went to a store and held each unit in my hand; I read and/or skimmed over the user manuals; I read as many reviews for each as I could find online; and I listened to as many sound samples as I could find online.

At first, I was really leaning toward the Edirol R-09HR because of the wireless remote. Also, compared to the Sony, which uses 4 AA batteries, I liked that the Edirol only takes 2. But then when I held the Edirol in my hand, it felt so lightweight and potentially easily breakable compared to the Sony and the Olympus, which are both constructed with metal bodies.

Then, I was leaning toward the Sony PCM-D50. I liked it's sturdy metal construction and I thought the Sony limiter would be a super cool feature to have. I also liked that the on-board mics were movable. Furthermore, some the sound samples for the Sony that I found online were noticeably better (especially in lower frequency sounds). (See the Wingfield Audio website.) But the Sony costs significantly more than either the Edirol or the Olympus. Also, the Sony is downright huge compared to the Edirol and especially compared to the Olympus. With the 4 AA batteries installed, it would add a noticeable amount of weight to my briefcase. All in all, considering (1) its size; (2) that most of the sound samples I heard online were not THAT much better than the other recorders; and (3) the higher price, I dropped Sony from my list.

With the Sony out of the picture, it was down to the Edirol and the Olympus. Again, I started thinking about the Edirol's wireless remote. Olympus does make a wireless remote for the LS-10, but it doesn't come in the box. On top of that, the Edirol's wireless remote has more functions than the optional LS-10 wireless remote. The more I thought about how I would be using the recorder, the more I began to think that a wireless remote wasn't the most important feature for me.

In comparing the Edirol and Olympus, I also like that the Olympus body has a threaded tripod mount connection right on the back of the unit; as opposed to the Edirol, which in order to use a tripod, one also needs to purchase a special case.

Finding that the audio quality--based on hearing samples online--was of generally high quality in both the Edirol and the Olympus, my decision came down to the fact that the recording level control on the Olympus is a wheel, whereas the level control on the Edirol uses buttons. In my experience with any kind of audio equipment, which I admit is rather limited, I have tended to not like controls for volume or levels that use buttons instead of wheels. I find that a wheel enables me to set a much more precise level, be it an output volume level or a recording level.

Based on what appears to be a very high quality of construction and the materials from which it is made, plus the difference in the user interface and controls, I went for the Olympus. I was able to get a great price on the LS-10 (under $300--compared to the suggested retail price of $399.99) through Amazon.com.

(NOTE: another vendor selling through Amazon does have a slightly lower price, but I opted to buy from Amazon directly, pay only $9 more, get free shipping, and have the peace of mind that if anything goes wrong with the device or I simply do not like it after actually using it a bit to record my singing lessons, I will be dealing with Amazon, which has an excellent return policy, and not someone else whose return policies and practices may be a bit dodgy.)

I can't wait for it to be delivered! And I'll be sure to post my thoughts after I get to use it.

Again, many thanks to all for sharing their thoughts and experiences in this thread and on the O'Reilly Forums, in general. Special thanks to Mark Nelson for his insightful series of reviews of so many of the portable digital recorders.

Cheers,
Noah

Thanks so much for sharing your thought process, Noah.

Noah:

I am in the same boat as you, trying to decide which recorder to buy to record my singing practices and lessons.

Kindly give an update on your experience with the LS-10. I'm very interested in whay you have ot say.

Thanks very much.

Regards,

R.Singer